Ken and Barbie Killers: The Perfectly Twisted Pair – Part Two

In part two of the chilling saga of "The Ken and Barbie Killers," join Heather, Mike, and Bree as they unravel the twisted romance between Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka, two of Canada's most notorious criminals. This episode delves deeper into their sinister bond, revealing how their seemingly perfect facade masked an escalating spiral of violence and depravity.

Discover how Paul, the Scarborough Rapist, lived a horrifying double life, managing to evade suspicion despite mounting evidence and numerous close calls. Meanwhile, Karla Homolka transitioned from troubled teenager to complicit partner, willingly engaging in abuse and manipulation. As their dark romance intensified, their horrific fantasies reached terrifying new depths, ultimately culminating in one of Canada's most shocking crimes—the planned murder of Karla's own sister, Tammy.

This disturbing exploration examines the psychological dynamics between Bernardo and Homolka, questioning the boundaries between victimhood and culpability. Listeners are warned that the details are graphic and unsettling, capturing the disturbing reality of two individuals who, together, unleashed unprecedented cruelty.

Subscribe now to ensure you don't miss the harrowing continuation of this true crime journey. Viewer discretion is strongly advised.

Transcript

Ken And Barbie Part Two (00:00)
To all of our returning listeners, welcome back to the PIC True Crime Podcast. And to all of those checking us out for the first time, welcome and thank you.

Today we're going to dive into part two of The Ken and Barbie Killers. As always, we'd advise you to go back and listen to part one if you have not heard it yet,

But to make a quick summary of what we covered last week when we met Karla Homolka, the eldest of three daughters who had a picturesque upbringing, blonde, blue-eyed, and high-achieving, Karla had a home and a family that gave her every opportunity to thrive as an adult. Yet, since she was a young girl, Karla showed some worrying behaviorisms that led us to believe that she may have been born a psychopath,

Manipulative and hungry to make others suffer, she lived to strike shock and fear into her classmates. Karla wanted to control and terrorize everyone to get her way. Paul Bernardo, on the other hand, had an upbringing that's straight out of a Stephen King novel. An agoraphobic mother, child predator father, and a house filled to the brim with abuse, neglect, and filth.

Bernardo showed his leanings towards violence, arson, and abuse of his girlfriends early in life,

And as a young adult, every love interest left the house fleeing for their lives from his abuse. Realizing that no sane woman would be willing to accept his six torture-filled fantasies, Bernardo turned to the streets. There he stalked women and girls, followed them home, and assaulted no less than four victims in 1987, earning him the nickname the Scarborough Rapist. And it's at this point that the two budding serial killers are about to meet.

Both were blonde, beautiful, and looked like they stepped out of a fashion magazine. Bernardo was a rising accountant on his way up the corporate ladder.

And Karla was working at a pet store with plans of going to college to study to become a veterinarian. On the outside, they were a perfect match. But as you can imagine, this fatal attraction would result in one of the most explosive and violent love affairs in all of Canada's history. Before we kick the show off, let me introduce my co-hosts. I'm Heather. I'm Mike. And I'm Bree

Now, before we continue, I need to remind everyone that Bernardo is done with college and already working at a nice and comfortable firm as an accountant.

He's still smuggling cigarettes as well as hiding the fact that at night he's the Scarborough Rapist, attacker of four women and girls, the youngest of which was just 15 years old.

Bernardo is also still stringing his on-again-off-again teenage girlfriend, Jennifer, along to get his abusive rocks off

when he's not out hunting. An interesting fact is that by 87, Bernardo was still living in his childhood home in Scarborough. What's in that hill house? He's making money. He can afford his own place. I can only come to the conclusion that he wants to be there.

Well, his sister and brother had thankfully moved out by now, so at least they're safe from Kenneth Bernardo's madness and assaults.

The mother, Marilyn, had reconnected with her biological siblings and moved out of the house to be closer to them.

Sadly, she wasn't quite clear of Kenneth. He visited her often at the apartment, just like he used to when she tried to lock herself in the basement.

I think we can all agree that those were the strangest, most disturbing parents that any kid could grow up with. It's a miracle that only one of the three kids turned out bad. I mean, what a hellhole that was.

And Paul Bernardo, now 24 years old, was still knee deep in the home of a pedophile.

He also fancied himself a budding new rapper. Was he any good? This might be the cringiest thing I've heard in my entire life. And I've heard a lot.

He recorded his rap songs on a home video recorder, backward hat and all. He looked as out of place as Captain Kirk at a football game. Half of his stuff didn't even rhyme. I cannot express how much joy it gave me to see how stupid he looked and sounded. It's so bad, it's criminal. Actually, his lyrics did give a hint of some of what was going on in his head.

It's all about decapitation, domineering women, and killing people. There isn't any poetic rhyme or reason to any of it.

Just a bunch of ramblings drenched in blood. It's bad writing but it's very telling writing. Then there's Jennifer, that girlfriend he kept terrorizing on and off. A few months before his fateful meeting with his future wife, Bernardo and Jennifer were out and he'd stopped in an empty parking lot. They got into a fight because Bernardo wanted to hold a knife to her throat during sex and she didn't want to.

At one point he started searching for the knife beneath his seat, screaming that he was going to kill her. These threats weren't new to Jennifer, even the use of a knife wasn't unusual. But something else, Bernardo did, finally broke her. Through his screams and rants and fumbling under his seat, Bernardo started mumbling to himself, why am I doing this? Why can't I stop doing this?

Jennifer said that something about that nearly incoherent mumbling, that broke his vicious, though lucid, screams was disconcerting, almost demonic.

For the first time she really thought that he was going to kill her. While he was distracted searching for the blade, she threw open the door and ran for her life. Jennifer hid in some bushes nearby for hours while Bernardo searched the area for her. After that day she never contacted him again and she never answered the phone when he called. He didn't try for too long though. Soon enough he'd meet Karla and a-

all of his obsessive behaviors would be directed at his new girlfriend instead.

Karla Homolka was now 17 years old, still in school and working at pet store. In October of that year, Karla and her co-workers were attending a pet convention. Like in the actual animals or a convention for the products? Pet apparel, cages, leashes and such, but also for veterinarians to hear seminars on new medications, treatments and ways to handle animals.

The store Karla worked at definitely treated animals, but there's no source that indicates exactly in what capacity. It does seem like they were a full-on veterinary clinic, but they also sold fish, hamsters, birds, and stuff like that, as well as products like cages, food, beds, and whatnot. It's an important point to make for later because the store she worked at did have a stock of medication that wasn't sold over the counter.

And I think I see where you're going with this. All right, go on. Well, the convention went about as you'd expect and Karla and a colleague went out for a few drinks one night. Apparently ID checks aren't important if you're pretty enough, huh? I mean, isn't she only 17? Looks like she had no problem working up a good buzz. She and her friend named Debbie got back to their hotel room.

around midnight and changed out of their nice clothes and into their pajamas. But the girls were hungry so they headed down to the lobby and ordered some grilled cheese. Then Paul Bernardo walked in with an acquaintance and the two made eye contact. Bernardo asked the pretty blonde if she made a habit of going out for dinner in her pajamas and that was it. Instant karma.

Debbie and Bernardo's school friend, Van, said that there was electricity in the air. Less than two hours later, Bernardo and Karla disappeared into the night,

But instead of just a one night stand like Bernardo was used to doing, he took Karla's number and the two of them met up again less than month later. And here the snowball begins.

By December, they were going steady, and Bernardo was visiting the Hamilcar home every weekend to be with Karla. I mean, her parents was allowing this? Isn't he like seven years older than she is? I mean, she's still in high school and he's a full grown man.

They weren't super strict about boyfriends or going out. All three of their girls brought home good grades and actually stayed out of trouble on paper at least. And they had the attitude of trusting their kids to make the right decisions. Besides, Paul Bernardo was charming, successful, and he genuinely seemed to like being with the whole family.

He'd arrive with a grand gift for Karla, but he never forgot to bring something small for her sisters, too.

Yeah, that's not creepy at all.

He slept in the spare room, but he'd sneak off to Karla's bedroom anyway.

And as you can imagine, from the get-go, their sex life was, well, violent. In the span of two months, it went from kinky handcuffs to beatings all the way to sodomy. If Bernardo couldn't hurt and dominate a woman, he got bored and distracted. Karla was willing to accept the pain and the humiliation that came with him. He degraded and humiliated her with beatings and told her to announce to his video camera that she was unworthy of such a magnificent

king. He made her okay this is unpleasant.

He made her eat his feces as punishment for whatever imagined sin she'd committed that day. Not only was she willing to accept all that, she was willing to let him watch her 12-year-old sister, Tammy, getting dressed for bed. Karla would keep her distracted while Bernardo spied through the window.

So she's already a willing participant. Definitely.

Karla knew there was something very dangerous about this man that she was so sure was Prince Charming. His sexual deviancy was clear in the writing.

and his treatment of her and from his obvious obsession with younger girls.

That December, Bernardo went out again, striking two more women, bringing his victim count up to six. The only blemish on their relationship was Bernardo's deep dissatisfaction that Karla was not a virgin when she'd met him. He never let her forget that, and he made her apologize numerous times throughout their relationship.

He'd style their bedroom business to humiliate her as punishment. Dog callers, role play, degrading name calling, that kind of thing. But the bizarre punishments never appeased him for long, and the whole cycle would start all over again.

So he's still on that virgin form fantasy of his.

Alright, I need to interject here. I mean, I've been going by the assumption that they were equally evil, but Karla's a literal teenager. She's being abused and exploited. She must have been terrified.

I mean he strung that ex-girlfriend of his, what was her name? Jennifer? Along with the level of abuse too. She lived with it for three whole years. He's chipping away at their resistance, using fear and punishment to keep them in line.

You can't say that any of what's about to happen is consensual on Karla's part. I mean, she's an unpleasant person, sure, but that's a lot for a 17-year-old to deal with.

Give it a minute. I'm going to let you repeat that at later stage. You're going to get that statement. Mark my words, All right, all right. I'll take your word of caution and keep myself from getting all worked up. Continue.

In January of 88, a task force was set up to find the Scarborough rapist. The FBI even wrote up a profile for the Canadian investigators. And let me tell you, it was spot on. Their assessment stated that the Scarborough police were looking for a man between the ages of 18 and 25. He was white and a Scarborough native.

His attacks were going to get more frequent and they called it that he'd escalate soon.

They assessed that he had abused girlfriends before and that there would definitely have been signs of his sexual deviances and hatred of women in his past. The rapist did not take responsibility for his failings and always blamed others, especially women, for his shortcomings. He had a grand image of himself and believed he was superior to everyone around him. All of this is Bernardo to a T. The only things that they were off about was that he was

probably single, and that he most likely only had a high school education. But other than that, they nailed who he was and what his past red flags were. Then Jennifer comes into the picture again. mean, don't tell me he dragged her back into this again. I mean, she's been through enough already, hasn't she?

Not quite. You see, Bernardo still owed her some money and Jennifer told a police officer who she was friends with about that one night.

And Jennifer told a police officer whom she was friends with about this one night. So this wasn't any kind of official statement or anything. She just asked her friend who happened to be a police officer some advice. She needed the money back, but the ex-boyfriend was a frightening character and she wasn't sure how to go about the whole thing.

She was afraid that it would open the door to Bernardo to enter her life again, and that's the last thing she wanted. The officer was so unnerved by the things Jennifer told him about Bernardo, his alarming behaviors, and his abuse that he wrote a report and added the notes to the pile of suspects for the Scarborough rapist. He just had a feeling that Bernardo was worth looking into. That's some good instincts. Did it pan out? Nope.

The notes were just that, notes, and it got lost in the pile of tips and calls and reports that were much more concrete. No one bothered to pick it up and look at it. And since the officer wasn't on the task force, he was in no position to push for anyone to look into it either.

They had DNA, but no one to test it against. And until evidence surfaced that would give authorities cause to pursue a lead, they weren't going to throw their resources into looking into a hunch. It's a frustrating fact, but with all the registered offenders and dangerous people who were on the docket, it's unfortunately an understandable reality that we have to accept.

As their relationship continued, Karla's friends became suspicious of Bernardo. Every move Karla made, every outfit she wore, everything went by her boyfriend first.

invited her out, she'd have to run it by him, and he'd never let her go unless he was with her too. One girl found a list in Karla's room written in her handwriting. The list detailed rules that she had to follow.

When he asks, bring Paul a drink and do so happily, no one must know that the relationship was anything other than perfect. You are fat, you are ugly, you are stupid, you are never going to change. And the list included ways that she was to control her weight, approved makeup, hairstyles, and clothes,

and a bunch of other insane rules that she had to follow to appease Bernardo. Whether he made her write them or if it came from her is uncertain. And you're still on the horse that Karla's not an abused woman?

Not if you read the letters they wrote each other. In them, she thanks him for being the best man a woman could ask for. She complimented his intellect, his body, openly stated that she wanted him to dominate her. Wearing dog collars and being filmed, those videos were all saved and viewed later. In them, Karla was not a frightened girl. She was very much into this crazy

BDSM stunt that Bernardo brought forth.

In the first year, he was demanding and had insane appetites in the bedroom, but he'd never physically assaulted her. Yet Karla never asked for help. She never showed any signs of being unhappy or afraid.

Heck, she was already trying to convince Bernardo to marry her. A suggestion that he was very much uninterested in at first. He didn't want to settle down just yet, and even though he kept Karla on a short leash, he still had flings on the side. For four months, Bernardo's new willing plaything was enough to keep him off the streets. But in April of 88, he went out again.

This time he attacked a 17-year-old girl near a bus stop. And just a month later he was found hiding behind another bus stop by a police officer. The officer chased after him, but Bernardo managed to escape. This made him realize that the police were tightening their patrols around Scarborough. So he headed off to Ontario and assaulted an 18-year-old just five days after that close call.

This rape wasn't even tied to the Scarborough rapist at the time, but it does prove that he's capable and willing to adapt to his environment.

Four more months passed without incident before he attacked a woman in Scarborough in October. This girl fought him off and he never managed to sexually assault her, but he did manage to stab her in the thigh and buttock, requiring 12 stitches. In November, there was another victim that was attacked outside her own house while her parents were inside the home. And finally,

He ended 88 off with another close call where a neighbor caught Bernardo in the act and chased him off. Bernardo escaped again. Like before, the close call drove Bernardo back into the shadows until the heat died down. So he spent that off time attending his girlfriend's high school graduation. we know if Carlo was aware of the attacks?

There are conflicting reports. If you believe Karla's statement, she didn't know until he confessed to her on their wedding night. Bernardo says that he told her two months into the relationship, but between his multiple girlfriends, his permanent girlfriend, smuggling operation, work, and his nighttime prowlings,

It's hard to imagine that she couldn't have known. I mean, that's a lot of despicable behavior to keep hidden. It's not like Bernardo made a secret of his treatment of his girlfriends. All of his girlfriends and war colleagues got an earful of how he beat them, degraded them, and controlled them. Bernardo was proud of his treatment of them, and he got a kick of telling anyone who stood still long enough.

He never admitted to anyone around the water cooler about being the Scarborough rapist, but I don't think he could've resisted telling Karla about it. She hung on his every word. She practically worshipped the man. Actually, everyone kinda did. Her friends liked him, her parents and sisters adored him, and his friends thought he was just the toughest dude in the yard.

Those first 6 months in 89 weren't all that eventful,

except that Bernardo did make a fool of himself at Karla's graduation when he tried to beat up some of the new graduates because he felt that they were flirting with his girlfriend. Other than that, the two spent their time racking up dozens of videotapes that they record of all their trips and sexual adventures. Karla had long since discarded her dream of becoming a veterinarian and instead wanted to go to college

to study forensic science hoping to become a detective. But Bernardo soundly put this idea down. He argued that he was successful enough to take care of his woman and no girl of his was going to do a dangerous job like police work.

So, she upgraded to a vet's assistant for the time being while she decided what she'd go to school for that Bernardo would approve of. It wasn't until August that Bernardo struck again. This time he assaulted a 22 year old woman in her apartment and the attack lasted more than two hours.

The sheer violence and extended torture of this victim led the task force to believe that the FBI was right. The rapist was escalating. In November, he assaulted a 15-year-old girl, again, at a bus stop. In that same month, Karla quit her job as a vet's assistant after her boss accused her of stealing ketamine. As you know, ketamine is a serious drug that induces unconsciousness.

and the heavily controlled substance only started going missing when Karla started walking there.

Any idea on who they were using it on or were they just using it themselves?

Or were they using it themselves recreationally? Not sure. Or at least there's no definitive. Karla's friends did report that Bernardo, under the guise of being polite, liked to refill their drinks. But a few of them noticed that there was a powdery substance on the rim of their glasses. They stopped taking anything from him. The theory that most people

prescribe to is that Karla and Bernardo were experimenting with ways to successfully drug women. A trial run, if you will. None of the drinks were ever successfully ingested, so they gave up on that method pretty quickly.

Regardless of what Karla was using the ketamine for when the accusations were made, she packed her things and applied for a vet technician post at another clinic. She landed the job just as Bernardo quit his office job. tell me, I mean, he wanted to pursue his rap career, correct?

Worse, he went into smuggling full time. The money was better and it gave him more freedom to take Karla on all sorts of weekend trips and fancy dinners. On December 9th took Karla to Niagara Falls where he proposed to her under the stars and as you can imagine, she immediately said yes.

When they got back, he assaulted a 19-year-old,

bringing 89 to an end with a fiance, a budding smuggling operation, and 15 total victims, 5 of whom fought off their attacker

or was saved by someone who heard the struggle. Not to mention that some weird things were starting to happen at the Homolka house. Remember, Bernardo is coming there every weekend, especially now that they were engaged. Karla's little sister had a bit of a crush on her future brother-in-law. Keep in mind she's 13 or 14 at this point and Bernardo's a handsome, tall gentleman who always bought her gifts.

Renato loved the attention and he made some special efforts to take her along on drives if they ever needed to pick up something from the store. Karla didn't mind this at all. If anything, she encouraged it. She removed the blinds from her sister's windows so that he could have a better view of the girl while she slept and undressed. One night, Karla crushed Valium into her sister's dinner when their parents weren't home.

And when Tammy passed out, the couple undressed her and Bernardo got to touch her while she was knocked out. Sammy had no idea Karla was a willing participant in this? Her own sister? Definitely. Karla would not allow Bernardo to go any farther than touching, but she sure didn't have a problem with him taking videos of the whole thing. Or that they made a game of having sex in Tammy's room.

while playing that Karla was her little sister. But Karla was starting to get worried. Renato's interest in young Tammy was no longer something that she could accept.

It was becoming an obsession.

Karla couldn't have given two toots about the predatory, illegal, or immoral aspect of this. She was getting jealous of Tammy, resenting her for taking away Bernardo's love for Karla.

This is going to turn out so bad, isn't it?

horrible. Renata was already pushing Karla to allow him to take her little sister.

According to him, Karla had denied him a virgin and Tammy would make the perfect replacement.

He deserved what Karla had so freely given to someone else. To make matters worse, Bernardo wouldn't sleep with her unless she was dressed up in Tammy's clothes, pretending to be her little sister throughout the whole thing. Karla was desperate to remove her sister from the equation so that Bernardo could turn his attention back to her again. It's not like Karla didn't know what her fiancé was doing at night either. The next attack

proved that she was aware and even part of the Scarborough's rapist attacks. On December 22nd, Bernardo assaulted a 19-year-old woman in parking lot.

This woman claimed that there was another person there.

She said that this person looked like a woman and that she appeared to be holding a video camera. This mystery woman kept to the shadows,

Never coming close enough for her to see Karla properly. Ready to eat your words yet, Dad? I mean, Karla's abuse of her little sister was already enough to swing me. How awful. But least that witness changes things for the investigation, doesn't it? Not for police it didn't.

They wrote this person at the scene off as not credible. Given that the victim was beaten and traumatized severely, they were sure that she must have been mistaken. That's a bold statement to make. I mean, discounting addicts and sex workers, we've heard that a bunch of times. But they know this guy is out there and they know this is one of his victims. And these aren't girls operating on the rough side of town. These are teenagers.

Why does count such a unique account? I don't get it. I would say it's because it doesn't fit the FBI's profile or any known profile really. Rapists and killers don't act in pairs. The statistically likelihood for this to happen is already slim. And make that partner a woman too? You're talking about chances being almost zero. When the FBI predicted an escalation,

They were referring to an attacker becoming a murderer or at the very least going out more frequently, not adding an accomplished to the mix. Should that, should they have looked into it? Absolutely. And I'm not defending the cops here, but you can understand where they're coming from. Even me. I hate to go back on my initial feelings on this, but man, that's a very disturbing detail. And it jives with the two of them. They recorded everything.

Disney trips, engagement, wannabe music videos, everything that considered important. This definitely counts as a significant event. It makes sense that they would want to keep a record of it.

Any further records would have to wait though. Bernardo took on an accounting post at another firm in January of 1990. He was kept pretty busy at his new job for a few months,

Then one day, he just stopped showing up for work. These first few months of 1990 are weird, man.

Bernardo starts and quits a new job, then he buys a van for startup business, but that goes belly up, and then he goes back to cigarette smuggling AND makes up his mind that he's going to become a motivational speaker. I mean, that just makes sense for him, right?

He was bouncing all over the place and his next attack proves that he was becoming more and more unhinged. Shortly after quitting, he just happened to see a 19 year old woman

walking home from the bus stop. He did a few very unusual things during his attack. He bit the girl, pulled out clumps of her hair, and took her handbag as a souvenir. This time, however, the victim's recollection of her attacker was so detailed that the police released the composite sketch

in every newspaper they could. And let me tell you, it looks exactly like him. Just look at the picture. Wow, there is no doubt about who that is. Somebody had to recognize this. It's like a photograph.

Not for two months. But the police couldn't ignore the amount of calls that were coming in. People from Bernardo's two previous firms made up most of the calls, but there were old girlfriends and guys who'd partied with him who called in too. One of them was one of Bernardo's childhood friends, a guy named Alex. He's the brother of the kid who dated Bernardo's first high school girlfriend. And he came with

everything the previous victims managed to get a look at.

description of the two cars he'd driven in the past matched, the fact that Bernardo liked to girls that were much, much younger than he was, videos and photographs that matched the description, height, and even the class ring he wore that one of his victims saw. But the most telling of all was Bernardo's violent and degrading

Behavior toward women and his habit of bragging about the horrible things he did to his girlfriends. Alex talked about the strange household he'd grown up in. His crazy mother, creepy father, the fact that the house was always in a state of filth and that Bernardo was not Kenneth's biological son.

Alex's two brothers hung out with him, but Alex never had actually liked Bernardo. He thought he was morally corrupt and, quite frankly, scary enough that he didn't want his own wife around the man. Detectives even found the old notes made by the police officer that spoke to Jennifer, the ex-girlfriend. Even with all of this, the police were slow to bring him in, but Bernardo charmed his way out of that interview in less than an hour.

He admitted that the pictures looked like him, but why would a good looking guy like himself with a drop dead gorgeous fiance, no less, need to take women against their will? He was well spoken, educated, and perfectly cooperative. He even gave them his DNA without a hint of hesitation. I think I know where this is going. It's 1990. That sample's gonna disappear under all other DNA that they still have to run.

It's going to take years. This is always so frustrating. It was added to the pile of samples. At least this time it wasn't forgotten about, but yes, it is going to take a while. DNA scanning only became available to Canada in 1988. The technicians required to do it were still being trained in the field. And to complicate things, Paul Bernardo is a non-secretor.

a condition that only affects about 20 % of the population. I mean, we've covered nasoscretors before, but remind me again what that is. That was in the Chicotillo case, and his was a little different. Chicotillo basically had a blood type discrepancy where the blood type in his saliva and his semen were different from one another. Bernardo's DNA didn't show up in his saliva at all.

They had semen samples from the rape kits, but the saliva was at the top of the pile. Because he'd bitten his last victim and since she'd given such descriptive testimony, her case was at the top of the priority list. So there's still plenty of time for Bernardo to think that he's invincible and to escalate once more. Only this time the end result is going to be death.

And his loving fiance, Karla Homolka, will be right by his side. If anyone ever thought that she didn't know what was going on, they won't be able to deny the truth any longer. Because their first murder would be the ultimate wedding gift. Proof of her love and devotion to the monster that she was about to marry. Karla Homolka was about to bring a lamb for slaughter. And that sacrificial lamb would be her own

Sister Tammy. The 15-year-old was the ultimate proof of Karla's love. But we will have to come back to that in part three, I'm afraid. This roller coaster is about to pick up speed and we all need to catch our breath before we take that breakneck journey that these two are about to undertake. Are we surprised? Bernardo's been escalating since the early teens.

Every year he ups the ante. It was inevitable that he would end up in murder. But that the victim would be his child's sister-in-law? That's the highest degree of evil. I'm starting to see why you two girls have been so insistent that Karla was the worst evil between the two. Killing a child is one thing, but offering up that child, your own little sister? That's next level vile.

As impossible as it might sound, the death of this poor, sweet child named Tammy isn't the worst thing to come out of this nightmare. And as we need to remind our listeners...

Thank you for joining me and my PICs.

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